Give And Take

In this episode of Give and Take, Scott Jones sits down with pastor and author Jack Haberer to discuss his new book, Swimming With the Sharks: Leading the Full Spectrum Church in a Red-and-Blue World. (https://www.amazon.com/Swimming-Sharks-Spectrum-Red-Blue/dp/B0D8NY75S5/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=O43WZ&content-id=amzn1.sym.0fb2cce1-1ca4-439a-844b-8ad0b1fb77f7&pf_rd_p=0fb2cce1-1ca4-439a-844b-8ad0b1fb77f7&pf_rd_r=132-1264772-5567349&pd_rd_wg=J2f20&pd_rd_r=5d617b71-a8a3-4e4a-a365-0e568f22e514&ref_=aufs_ap_sc_dsk) As political polarization increasingly shapes—and often divides—American congregations, Jack brings hard-earned wisdom, theological depth, and pastoral sensitivity to the challenge of leading churches across ideological lines. Drawing from decades of ministry in diverse settings, Jack shares real-world stories, practical insights, and a hopeful vision for what it means to shepherd a church that refuses to split down party lines. The conversation explores how pastors can stay rooted in the gospel while na