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The refugee crisis that hit the headlines in 2015 and 2016 has largely gone out of the news. Yet refugees continue to risk their lives on a daily basis in the attempt to reach Europe. Most of those who make it face extraordinary difficulties getting their claims for asylum accepted. This is one of the most serious humanitarian disasters to unfold in Europe in recent decades; yet the EU and its members have largely focused on deterring migrants. What can we learn from the refugees’ stories? And where do we stand, as Europeans whose governments seek to dissuade would-be refugees from leaving their homelands? Teresa Thornhill, author of Hara Hotel (Verso), and Daniel Trilling, author of Lights in the Distance (Picador), were joined in conversation by Marchu Girma of Women for Refugee Women and journalist Ziad Ghandour.  See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.