Let Us Reason - A Christian/muslim Dialogue

Al Fadi and Dr. Jay Smith discuss what the Muslim leaders of early centuries of Islam and what Muslim leaders of today say about the Preservation of the Quran.  Today's leaders including Shabir Ali, Abdula Yusef Ali, and Yasir Qadi, to name a few, claim the perfect preservation of the Quran; They say that today's Quran is the same exact Quran of Othman days to the letter.  Going back to the first centuries of Islam ; Muslims did not claim that at all; in fact substitution (abrogation) was normal. Some of the early leaders that said that are Bukhari, Ibn Abi Dawood, Aisha, just to name a few.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi and Dr. Jay raise more questions about the origin of the Quran which create more problems about the Quran: 6. How can you have a dialectic problem in the mid 7th century unless you have a written text? 7.Why did Othman burn the other copies? 8. How can you burn a dialect? 9. If the Quran that Othman asked Zaid ibn Thabit to write in the Qurashi dialect was the second compilation of the Quran, why do we have 37 different Qurans today? They conclude that tradition says that Othman sent five copies to five cities/provinces, yet Muslims can not come with a manuscript from the five copies of the seventh century Quran(Othman's).See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi and Dr Jay discuss what Sahih Al Bukhari say in volume 6, Hadith # 109, page509-510.  They ask the following questions: Why would God chose a language (Arabic) that can not accommodate the Quran(no vowels or dots)? Why did God choose a man who couldn't read or write? If Mohammad was illiterate, he had 22 years to learn to read and write. Why didn't Abu Baker make more copies of the Quran? Was the Quran written down before Othman?See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al and Jay continue their discussion on Shoemaker book; the creating of the Quran. While Wilfred Smith took the side of the religious person, the naturalistic approach takes the opposite side.  Shoemaker says that you need to not take either extreme by studying the impact on the believer and study the history.  Shoemaker points out 5 important approaches that Bruce Lincoln points out: 1.Who is the author of the text, his audience, context, and agenda? 2. Since reverence is religious, scholarly approach is more important. 3. Permit criticism but not the other( W. Smith said: Criticize Christianity but not Islam). 4. Assuming all cultures are stable, but the reality is not.  5. Be ware of the scholars informance. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al and Jay continue their discussion on Shoemaker book; the creating of the Quran. While Wilfred Smith took the side of the religious person, the naturalistic approach takes the opposite side.  Shoemaker says that you need to not take either extreme by studying the impact on the believer and study the history.  Shoemaker points out 5 important approaches that Bruce Lincoln points out: 1.Who is the author of the text, his audience, context, and agenda? 2. Since reverence is religious, scholarly approach is more important. 3. Permit criticism but not the other( W. Smith said: Criticize Christianity but not Islam). 4. Assuming all cultures are stable, but the reality is not.  5. Be ware of the scholars informance. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi and Dr, Jay Smith continue their discussion of Shoemaker book creating the Quran. Today they talk about how this censorship affected the department of defense. After world war two the west came up with a policy of not accepting any criticism of Islam .  Westerners and western academic Islamic scholars came up with a form of Islam to agree with western values. This form of Islam is not true to the historical Islam.  Shoemaker"s  solution to this problem is to do an accurate historical criticism of Islam.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi and Dr Jay continue their discussion from last time on Shoemaker book Creating the Quran. This time they reveal the names of two scholars that were responsible for censoring what can be said about the Quran and Islam:  1. Wilfred Cantrell Smith; he gave the approach of how scholars should deal with Islamic material.  He concluded that if any valid understanding of the Quran, one must approach the text as a believing Muslim would, and seek to understand it on that basis.  2. Mircea Eliade from the university of Chicago.  These two scholars concluded that any study of Islam must be based on personal experience of Muslims.  In other words Muslims have to give their stamp of approval.  The problem with this approach is that it is not a true scholarly approach.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi and Dr Jay Smith are starting a new series based on a new book by Stephen Shoemaker called Creating the Quran.  Stephen says that Mohammad is the author of the Quran , and he is going against mainstream academics.  He says that we should not study the Quran according to later tradition ,but use standard tools of historical criticism that was used on other sacred scripture writings; ie The Bible.  There is a fear that critics and scholars have in stating their finding about the Quran . Shoemaker tells the name of the man behind the censorship.  Al and jay will reveal it on the next episode.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi shares his personal good news of his son getting married and a new grandchild is born . A bad news of losing his nephew. And a challenging news of his many back surgeries.  On the ministry level, the Lord showed up in mighty way: The production of many videos: A.  David Wood on the unholy character of Mohammad.  B. Historical criticism of Islam on art prohibition c. Sam Shamoun on the deity of Christ in the Quran.  D. Dr Jay Smith on the book, the man , and the place. These are few example.  You can watch all these videos on Cira international You-Tube. The views for these videos has reached over 13 million people. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al and Jay use the book that Dr Daniel Brubaker has done on the preservation of the Quran.  They point out the different variants in the Qur'anic manuscripts that has been inserted, erased, covered and taped.  They conclude that the process of collecting the Quran was not standardized.  What is left behind after all the editing is the Hafs version of the Quran today. Al and Jay also talk about the 63 fragment of manuscripts that Muslims say it make up  97% of the Quran of the first century of Islam. Al and Jay say that 63 fragments do not comprise a complete Quran.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi and Dr Jay talk about the discovery of the 33 verses from chapters 18-20 of the Quran which when it was discovered in 2015, Muslims thought that they found the Quran from the time of Muhammad.  These folios consist of three stories that existed before Islam and the Quran that was modified to take out the references to Jesus as God and replaced with Jesus as a prophet.  Al and Jay also talk about the Quran's Kiraat (variant readings). Jay talks about Hatun Tash  who discovered the many different copies of the Quran that does not match, and that was against  what Muslims claim about the preservation of the Quran.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi shares some of the reasons why we celebrate Christmas: 1. It is a reminder of the promise God made to Adam and Eve after the fall.  2. Because of God's love for us He gave us the greatest gift ever(Jesus)  3.  We have to accept the gift of Jesus by faith.  4. By believing in Jesus as the savior we go to heaven.  5.  By believing we have a direct communication with God.  6.  God became a man and dwelt amongst us.  7.  This is the greatest gift to mankind. God loved us while we were still sinners, and by believing in the gift and accepting it we have eternal life.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Quran was written in 652 AD, in the Quraishi dialect by Zaid ibn Thabit , Mohammad's secretary, After Mohammad's death.  There were no dots or other marks in that .Muslims say that Mohammad was given the Quran in 7 different Kira'at /dialects by Gabriel. Some of the Qurans are from Syria and Iraq and they all contain different numbers of Suras.  Looking at different manuscripts Jay and Ali and others conclude that none are from the 7th century, they had many variants that does not agree with the Hafs Quran, the most used version . The Question remains ; Where is the original Quran? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi and Dr Jay discuss the reasons that the Dome of the Rock debunk the S.I.N. According to the S.I.N. Mohammad was taken to the rock where he was ascended into heaven and came back in the year 621.  First the Dome of the Rock does not have a qibla, but the two mosques next to it do and are facing Petra.  They mention that the Dome of the Rock we have today was not the one built by Abd Al Malik.  The building itself was destroyed and rebuilt eleven times. In the second part of the episode they talk about the claim of preservation of the Quran by the Muslims. Jay says that the complete copy of the Quran was produced during Uthman the Calif . All Muslims had to do to back up the claim is to produce a copy of the manuscript from the time of Uthman and have them compare it with a Quran copy of today to see if it is a perfect match.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al and Jay say that there were no coins minted during the time of Mohammad 620- 660 AD in Mecca.  The coins found in that time period had Byzantian crosses or Zoroastrian temples on them and they were found in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. In 680 AD when Abd Al- Malik defeats the Byzantian ,  he introduces the Shahadah.  He was an anti trinitarian Christian. Mohammad's name was introduced on the coins during Abd- Al Malik reign in 710 AD.  The rock inscription were found in the 7th century, way north of Mecca between 640-740 AD. . None of the inscription was found in Mecca or Medina as the S.I.N. claims.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On this episode of Let Us Reason, Al Fadi and Dr Jay Smith continue their discussion on the rest of the stages of Hajj or the pilgrimage to Mecca.   They notice the progression of the narrative with time. For example they point out that before 1980 there was only one pillar to throw rocks at and now they have three.  Another rock they point to is the black stone which they say it turned black from white because it takes away the sins of the people. And finally they conclude the discussion about Mecca, is it really what we thought it is? Mecca as a city today was not mentioned in history until 741 A.D.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al and Jay ask the question; does any of the empires surrounding Mecca ever heard of it or had any trade reference to Mecca? The answer is none, no surrounding empires; for example the Sabean, the Nabatean, the Assyrian, the Babylonian or even the Romans ever referenced Mecca.  They also discuss some of the five stages of the Haj all of which involve stones:  1. The Ka'ba(cube), 2. Al Safa and Marwah (the S.I.N say that they are two mountains). 3.  The Jamarat . They discuss if these rituals are purely Islamic or were they borrowed from Judaism. The discussion will resume next time.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi and Dr Jay continue the discussion from last time about the Red Sea route through Mecca .  Dr Patricia Crone debunked the land route theory and said that the route was through the Eastern side of the Red Sea coast. But history proves that the ships in the 2nd and 3rd century BC took the west coast of the red sea because of the five coastal cities that existed on the coast of Eretria, Sudan And Egypt. Also History shows that Jeddah was provided as a sea port to provide water for Mecca  and both cities did not exist until the 8th century AD.   Without Mecca there is no seventh century Islam( S.I.N.).  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Al Fadi and Dr Jay Smith  say that Mohammad received a revelation to change the direction of the qiblas from Jerusalem to Al Masjed Al Haram (Al Kaaba) in the year 624 AD.  They use Dan Gibson's research and conclude that the direction of the Qiblas in mosques between 624-706 AD were facing Petra.- The first mosque with the qibla facing Mecca was in 724 AD. This is a bad evidence for the S.I.N.  They also discuss the trade route theory by Dr Montgomery Watt who suggested the trade route  went  through Mecca to Gaza . He was trying to prove that Mecca was on the trade route. Dr Patricia Crone tried to prove that Mecca was never on the trade route which went through the red sea closer to the African coast and not the Arabian coast.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

According to the standard Islamic narrative ; 70-300 prophets are buried in Mecca, from Adam,  Seth, Noah, Daniel, also Eve, and the Queen of Shiba just to name a few.  There is no archeological evidence of that. In the second episode of this show Al and Dr Jay ask the question, where is Mecca on any of the ancient maps? Dr Jay talks about the research of Dr Patricia Crone  on the subject of Mecca in ancient maps. They conclude that there is no mention of Mecca until the 8th century; a 100 years after the death of Mohammad.  Mecca was not the place the S.I.N. wants us to believe.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.