The Third Story Podcast With Leo Sidran

Phoebe Katis — a UK-born, New York–based songwriter can pinpoint the moment when her life and career were quietly reoriented. It started with a single direct message. Katis traces her journey from being a young singer-songwriter in England, measuring herself against inherited ideas of success, to becoming part of a global musical community through a series of small, intentional actions — including the DM that led to her first collaboration with Cory Wong, years of touring, a move to the U.S., and a creative and personal life she never could have planned. At the center of the conversation is the idea of the inflection point — the moments that don't announce themselves while they're happening, but later reveal themselves as before-and-after lines. Katis speaks candidly about ambition, people-pleasing, pop music as a delivery system for emotional truth, and the reality of sustaining a creative life without asking your art to carry everything. Her latest album, A Coming Of Age was released in late 2025. Here she

Keren Ann was born in Israel, spent her early years in the Netherlands, and later moved to France. The daughter of a Russian-Jewish father and a Dutch-Javanese mother, she grew up multilingual and deeply aware that identity, language, and place are always in motion. She began writing songs as a teenager and, by her mid-twenties, was already making her living as a professional songwriter — thanks in part to an unexpected collaboration with the legendary French singer Henri Salvador, for whom she co-wrote several late-career songs, including the hit "Jardin d'hiver." From her debut album La Biographie de Luka Philipsen, Keren Ann established herself as a distinctive writer, singer, and producer. Over the next two decades, she moved fluidly between French and English, between Europe and New York, releasing a body of work shaped by solitude, curiosity, and an openness to change. Along the way, her songs have been recorded by artists including Iggy Pop and Jane Birkin, and she has collaborated with musicians such

Dan Pashman is one of those increasingly rare people who always wanted to be in radio. His career began at the turn of the millennium as a producer and reporter for NPR, Air America, and SiriusXM. But after six layoffs in under a decade—and an industry in steady contraction—Pashman found himself at a crossroads just as podcasting was beginning to emerge. In 2010, he created The Sporkful, a show he describes as being "for eaters, not foodies." With a young family in front of him and a decade of false starts behind him, Pashman saw the podcast as his last real shot at the career he'd imagined. Long obsessed with food, he finally had a platform to explore something he cared about deeply. Built on curiosity, humor, and an almost comical level of rigor, The Sporkful began with hyper-specific food debates—ice cubes, grilled cheese, cereal milk—and evolved into a broader exploration of culture, identity, business, and human connection. That evolution reached a turning point when Pashman embarked on a multi-year expe

Kurt Elling returns for a wide-ranging conversation about vocation, gratitude, and what it means to be in service of the music. Elling first appeared on The Third Story nearly ten years ago, already one of the most celebrated singers of his generation and still deeply focused on what he calls "the work I haven't done yet." Since then, he has moved from New York back to his native Chicago, launched major projects like SuperBlue with Charlie Hunter and members of Butcher Brown, recorded intimate small-group albums in the Wildflowers series of recordings, started his Big Shoulders record label, and continued his "poetic practice" of adding new lyrics to instrumental works by artists such as Wayne Shorter and Jaco Pastorius. The immediate occasion for this reunion, however, is something entirely new: Elling is currently appearing on Broadway in Hadestown, playing the role of Hermes. Recorded in an apartment on the Upper West Side during his Broadway run, the conversation moves fluidly between jazz clubs and civic

The Café Central, a jazz club located just off Madrid's Puerta del Sol — Spain's "Kilometer Zero" — has been going out of business for more than forty years. And now, it finally might. Opened in the early 1980s during Spain's cultural reopening after Franco's dictatorship, Café Central became a rare kind of space: part jazz club, part café, part public living room. Bands were booked for full weeks — seven nights at a time — a model that favored musical development over turnover, and community over efficiency. It was never a good business. But it was a great room. For nearly thirty years, my father, jazz musician Ben Sidran, and I returned every November to play there. Over time, the ritual turned into a tradition, and the tradition turned into a legacy — not just for us, but for audiences who marked their calendars around those weeks. Café Central also reflected the city around it. For years, Madrid felt quietly provincial — less touristy, more inward-facing than other European capitals. But that changed

Guitarist, bassist, composer Phil Upchurch died on November 23, and with his passing the music world lost one of its true "musician's musicians." Upchurch played on more than a thousand recordings  — from Michael Jackson, Donny Hathaway, Chaka Khan, Curtis Mayfield, and George Benson to Jimmy Reed, the Staples Singers, and countless jazz, blues, and soul sessions. He belonged to the generation that didn't just shape popular music; they invented it. For my dad, Ben Sidran, Phil was also a friend for over 50 years. They recorded and toured together, shared studios, homes, families, and a deep creative kinship. Some of my earliest gigs as a drummer were with Phil, and those moments helped define my own musical path. When we heard that Phil had passed, I called my dad so we could remember him together — the sessions, the stories, the laughter, the generosity, and the unmistakable sound that made him both an insider's secret and a foundational figure in American music. This episode is a tribute — a conversation ab

Madison Cunningham's new album Ace marks a striking and vulnerable chapter in the young songwriter's evolution. Not yet 30, Cunningham has already lived through a period of profound personal transformation. She married young, divorced young, and found herself rebuilding her identity in the wake of major change. Instead of retreating, she turned the experience into a meditation on the difference between happiness and contentment. Raised in a large religious family in Orange County, Cunningham began performing in her father's church band at twelve and was experimenting with alternate tunings before she fully understood them. Her breakthrough albums Who Are You Now (Grammy-nominated) and Revealer (Grammy winner for Best Folk Album) established her as one of the most distinctive voices of her generation. Here she reflects on her early musical formation, artistic growth, and the deeply personal experiences that shaped Ace—a record about honesty, resilience, and learning to stay present. www.third-story.com www.leo

Singer and composer Theo Bleckmann has spent his career between categories - jazz and avant-garde, improvisation and composition, structure and discovery. Born in Germany, he began as a boy soprano and figure skater before discovering jazz and moving to New York to study with Sheila Jordan. Since then, he's built a singular life in music, collaborating with artists like Meredith Monk, Laurie Anderson, and Ben Monder. Here he talks about community, teaching, queerness, and the meaning of "a life in music" rather than "a career in jazz." He also talks about his new album Love & Anger, produced by Ulysses Owens Jr., which bridges Kate Bush and the Beatles, Frank Ocean and original compositions - all infused with curiosity, empathy, and mystery. This episode is supported by Musication, providing in-home music lessons in Brooklyn and Manhattan to children ages 3yrs old and up. Email lessons@musication.nyc and mention "The Third Story" to receive two free trial lessons.  www.third-story.com https://leosidran.su

British singer-songwriter dodie has spent half her life in public. Long before algorithms and engagement metrics ruled the day, she began posting homemade songs and videos on YouTube as a teenager from Essex. Her soft voice, self-effacing humor, and unfiltered honesty drew millions of viewers who watched her grow up online—sharing heartbreaks, mental-health struggles, and moments of joy in real time. Fifteen years later, that same authenticity anchors her second album, Not For Lack of Trying (Decca / Verve), a project that finds her looking inward with more clarity and balance than ever. Produced with Joe Rubel, the record feels both intimate and expansive, blending hushed guitars, clarinets, and a subtle electronic pulse beneath lyrics about healing, boundaries, and learning to feel okay. Here she talks about what it means to grow up online, how she learned to protect her private life, and the long road to emotional equilibrium. She opens up about the strange feedback loop of being praised for her pain, the

The Köln Concert by Keith Jarrett is one of the most iconic recordings in jazz history — a completely improvised solo piano performance, recorded in 1975, that became both the best-selling solo album and the best-selling piano album of all time. And yet, the concert almost didn’t happen. The new film Köln 75, directed by Brooklyn-based filmmaker Ido Fluk, tells the remarkable true story behind that night through the eyes of Vera Brandes, the 18-year-old German concert promoter whose persistence and intuition made it possible. Against all odds - and with only a broken, nearly unplayable piano to work with - Brandes helped turn what could have been a disaster into a historic moment that continues to resonate fifty years later. Here Vera Brandes shares her memories of that night and her reflections on the making of Köln 75, which captures not only a pivotal event in jazz but also a coming-of-age story set in a post-war Germany rebuilding its identity. The conversation explores how art, community, and chance inte

Pianist, songwriter, and performer Jacob Jeffries the morning after he played Madison Square Garden with Vulfpeck, reflecting on the surreal thrill of performing in the legendary arena with his close friends, while also grounding the experience in the everyday reality of being a working musician. The conversation traces his journey from South Florida (where his childhood was shaped by Beatles records, summer theater programs like Lovewell, and the absence of a bar mitzvah he later regretted) to his early career with the Jacob Jeffries Band and formative studio experiences with Grammy-winning producer Sebastian Krys and guitarist-producer Dan Warner. He describes being taken under their wing, signed to Warner Chappell at 18, and even meeting Rick Rubin as a teenager—moments that felt like he was “six inches from Madison Square Garden,” only to discover it would take another 20 years of steady work to get there. Along the way, Jeffries talks about grief (losing both parents by his mid-20s), his bond with fellow

Born and raised in Madrid, Leonor Watling grew up between cultures, the daughter of a Spanish academic father and a British mother who had been raised in Africa. From an early age she was aware of both the fragility and the richness of life: her father was sick for much of her childhood and passed away when she a teenager, just as she began working steadily as an actress. That combination of otherness and awareness shaped her perspective, both on stage and in song. Best known internationally for her starring role in Pedro Almodóvar’s Talk to Her, she is one of the most recognizable faces in Spanish cinema, constantly at work in new films and series. Watling has also built a parallel career as a musician. For nearly two decades she fronted the band Marlango, releasing seven albums and touring the world, first singing in English and later in Spanish. In this conversation, recorded in Madrid, Leonor reflects on her journey from early television fame to international cinema, from intimate songwriting to major-lab

Stella Cole went from nearly giving up singing in college to becoming one of the breakout stars of the pandemic era, thanks to her viral performances of American Songbook standards on TikTok. Now signed to Decca and releasing her second full length album It’s Magic, she talks about following her instincts, finding her voice, and turning childhood obsessions into a career. www.third-story.com www.leosidran.substack.com www.wbgo.org/podcast/the-third-story  

Every year on his birthday, my dad and I sit down for a conversation. It started when he turned 76, and with a few exceptions, we’ve done it ever since - capturing an ongoing record of where his head and heart are at that particular moment. Over the years we’ve talked about music, memory, politics, travel, the craft of performing, and the art of living. These annual conversations have become a kind of time-lapse portrait: the same two people returning to the mic, but always a little changed. This year, as Ben turns 82, the theme that emerges is that he is “still auditioning for the role of myself.”  We talk about what it means to keep creating, to stay curious, and to hold on to your sense of fun as the outside world speeds up and your personal world contracts.  Ben is, as always, the consummate jazz philosopher. “History is what we make of it and what we live every day,” he tells me. “We’re all feeling pain, and you can’t deny it. [...] But the response to pain is something separate from the pain itself. An

In 2018, film editor, producer, writer, and director Mary Sweeney sat down for a wide-ranging conversation about her career — from growing up in Madison, Wisconsin, to collaborating with one of the most visionary directors of our time, David Lynch. That conversation traced her evolution as an artist, her pivotal role in shaping films like Lost Highway, The Straight Story, and Mulholland Drive, and the intimate creative and personal relationship she shared with Lynch. Seven years later, in the wake of Lynch’s death in early 2025, Sweeney returns for a follow-up conversation, recorded in a Paris hotel room nearly to the day of the original talk. While she has grown and evolved in the intervening years, she is also, unmistakably, in the process of mourning. This new conversation captures a deeply human moment: a woman navigating the complexities of grief, memory, and creative identity after the loss of a longtime collaborator and partner. Sweeney reflects not only on the legacy of her work with Lynch, but also o

Moses Patrou has spent the past twenty-five years in New York, carving out a unique space as a multi-instrumentalist and bandleader. From early days in Madison, Wisconsin playing hand drums in hip hop bands, to immersing himself in Cuban and Brazilian traditions, to gigging across the city in every imaginable context, Patrou has done it all. During the pandemic, he taught himself to play organ—a transformation that has reshaped his sound and his role in the scene. Here he reflects on the long road behind his new record Confession of a Fool - a soulful and striking record that represents the culmination of a lifetime in music - and what it means to make a defining statement at midlife. Patrou talks about the house fire that nearly took everything, the influence of his father (a piano player who named him after Mose Allison), and the difference between being a sideman and stepping into the spotlight. “There’s a certain point where the music has to come through your experience,” he says. “It has to filter throug

For Joe Henry, truth in songwriting doesn’t come from confession or fact. It comes from presence, from listening, from surrender, from giving shape to the ineffable. As he puts it: “Total presence—that is the code of my road.” Henry’s road has taken him across both the literal and metaphorical map of American music. Born in North Carolina, raised in Georgia and Ohio, and coming of age in Ann Arbor, Michigan, he grew up suspended between North and South, white and Black, rural and urban. This early sense of duality, of living between poles, helped shape his identity and fed a lifelong curiosity. Alongside his brother Dave, he immersed himself in records, films, and books that would later form the bedrock of his creative work. Over the past four decades, Henry has become one of the most respected songwriters and producers in American music. His solo albums, beginning in the late 1980s, blend literary songwriting with genre-bending arrangements. As a producer, he’s worked with artists like Allen Toussaint, Mavis

Aron! is only 22, but his music seems to exist outside of time. A singer, songwriter, and multi-instrumentalist from North Carolina, he studied classical guitar, jazz voice, and film scoring—playing everything from indie rock in a college band to Nat King Cole covers in retirement homes—before landing on a sound that feels both old school and strikingly fresh. (He calls his sound “vintage pop”.) His debut EP cozy you (and other nice songs) began as a self-produced student project, recorded in a college studio with friends. It was completed before he signed with Verve Records—one of the most iconic jazz labels in the world—and showcases his gift for timeless songwriting, intimate performance, and warm, sophisticated arrangements. He first gained attention online through casual videos of himself playing standards and originals, quietly amassing a loyal audience. Among his early champions was Ryan Lerman (Scary Pockets), who helped connect Aron! with a wider musical community. Here he reflects on his musical roo

Over the past two decades, Natalia Lafourcade has evolved from alt-pop prodigy to one of the most revered voices in Latin American music. With 15 Latin Grammys and 4 Grammys to her name, she’s known for blending contemporary expression with deep cultural roots. Her latest album, Cancionera, is a bold new statement—a stripped-down, emotionally direct record that draws on her Veracruz heritage, the son jarocho tradition, and a mystical alter ego she calls La Cancionera. In this conversation, Natalia reflects on the power of presence, the value of silence, and her decision to perform much of her new music solo on tour. She talks about the “theater of the song,” where voice and guitar take center stage, and about her ongoing effort to honor tradition while contributing something new. She also speaks candidly about recording live with 18 musicians, working again with producer Adan Jodorowsky, and bringing this music to audiences around the world at a time of division and border politics. Without preaching, she o

Terri Lyne Carrington has spent her life behind the drums—and out in front. In this wide-ranging conversation, the Grammy-winning musician, educator, and activist reflects on her remarkable journey from child prodigy to visionary bandleader, and from mentee to mentor. She shares stories from her early gigs with jazz legends like Clark Terry and Buddy Rich, her formative years with Herbie Hancock and Wayne Shorter, and her ongoing work shaping the next generation through the Berklee Institute of Jazz and Gender Justice. We spoke on the occasion of We Insist 2025!, Carrington’s powerful new reimagining of Max Roach’s classic 1960 protest suite. But the conversation goes far beyond the music—it’s about legacy, leadership, gender equity, and the responsibility of artists to help create a more just and expansive world. As Carrington puts it, “Only an open hand receives.” www.third-story.com www.leosidran.substack.com www.wbgo.org/podcast/the-third-story